Comments on: Flex Your HIG http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig Mac & Technology Writings by Daniel Jalkut Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:01:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Daniel Jalkut http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-41112 Daniel Jalkut Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:19:38 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-41112 corbin: awesome! corbin: awesome!

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By: corbin http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-41111 corbin Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:18:00 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-41111 I'll have to be sure to fix 4818521. Thanks! I’ll have to be sure to fix 4818521. Thanks!

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By: eBob http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22944 eBob Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:13:54 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22944 "<em>unsavory</em> user experience" [emphasis mine]. LOL. Sounds like a bad time to be had in the red light district. unsavory user experience” [emphasis mine].

LOL. Sounds like a bad time to be had in the red light district.

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By: Scott Stevenson http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22765 Scott Stevenson Mon, 06 Nov 2006 03:49:27 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22765 <i>Perfectionism has a price.</i> I'm not saying you should chase perfection, just make something more suited for now. <i>I try to remind myself that those weeks of interface "improvements" could have gone into actual features or improved functionality or new products that probably would have been of more value to my customers</i> There are plenty of apps out there with too many features and an unsavory user experience. Surely there's a balance. <i>Cheap UI shot in passing: Garage Band.</i> I don't follow. Perfectionism has a price.

I’m not saying you should chase perfection, just make something more suited for now.

I try to remind myself that those weeks of interface “improvements” could have gone into actual features or improved functionality or new products that probably would have been of more value to my customers

There are plenty of apps out there with too many features and an unsavory user experience. Surely there’s a balance.

Cheap UI shot in passing: Garage Band.

I don’t follow.

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By: David http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22537 David Sun, 05 Nov 2006 09:28:25 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22537 Scott, I understand where you are coming from -- I say these things to myself all the time too. The problem is that the search for UI perfection becomes an end in itself. I have literally spent months of my life tweaking, re-drawing, re-coding interface elements. Yes, the product is better looking for it (most of the time), but at what cost? By "hacks", I mean adjusting a design, or redesigning it or recoding it to make a certain look "work" because the control is broken or misfeatured in a particular OS version, because it's inherently buggy or misdesigned, etc. It's even more hackalicious if the work is probably going to be superseded in the very next product release, or more likely, OS version. Perfectionism has a price. These days, I try to remind myself that those weeks of interface "improvements" could have gone into actual features or improved functionality or new products that probably would have been of more value to my customers. As for customers liking new things, that's true, but I also remember that I have been more impressed with iTunes newly colored icons than I have iTunes newly fashioned UI elements... ;) Cheap UI shot in passing: Garage Band. Scott, I understand where you are coming from — I say these things to myself all the time too.

The problem is that the search for UI perfection becomes an end in itself. I have literally spent months of my life tweaking, re-drawing, re-coding interface elements. Yes, the product is better looking for it (most of the time), but at what cost?

By “hacks”, I mean adjusting a design, or redesigning it or recoding it to make a certain look “work” because the control is broken or misfeatured in a particular OS version, because it’s inherently buggy or misdesigned, etc. It’s even more hackalicious if the work is probably going to be superseded in the very next product release, or more likely, OS version.

Perfectionism has a price. These days, I try to remind myself that those weeks of interface “improvements” could have gone into actual features or improved functionality or new products that probably would have been of more value to my customers.

As for customers liking new things, that’s true, but I also remember that I have been more impressed with iTunes newly colored icons than I have iTunes newly fashioned UI elements… ;)

Cheap UI shot in passing: Garage Band.

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By: Matt Gemmell http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22535 Matt Gemmell Sun, 05 Nov 2006 09:19:40 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22535 Hey Daniel, Just a note that Jeff Ganyard just released an enhanced version of my TunesWindow code that uses CGGradients to draw its textured areas, and has configurable colours, heights on the top and bottom borders, and so on. <a href="http://bithaus.com/2006/11/04/stylish-windows/" rel="nofollow">Get it here</a>. Hey Daniel,

Just a note that Jeff Ganyard just released an enhanced version of my TunesWindow code that uses CGGradients to draw its textured areas, and has configurable colours, heights on the top and bottom borders, and so on. Get it here.

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By: Scott Stevenson http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22497 Scott Stevenson Sun, 05 Nov 2006 05:04:33 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22497 <i>So, we suddenly decide the interface needs... improving. When, in reality, it probably doesn't!</i> Not changing the UI is safer in the short term, but it's also limiting. You might be preventing yourself from making dramatic improvements. If you're concerned about messing things up, why come into work at all? <i>They had an interface that, quite simply, worked. And they’ve replaced it with one that... doesn't.</i> As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone knows how to use iTunes. There are certainly differences in <i>taste</i> (you use the word "classy" above), but that's outside of whether something works correctly or not. For better or worse, consumers like things to feel new. If Microsoft continually updated their media player UI and Apple did not, I think iTunes would start to feel stale to many people. <i>workarounds, undocumented hacks and so forth, really worth the effort for our customers</i> As far as I can tell, nothing Daniel described involves hacks. You've always been allowed to draw your own controls. So, we suddenly decide the interface needs… improving. When, in reality, it probably doesn’t!

Not changing the UI is safer in the short term, but it’s also limiting. You might be preventing yourself from making dramatic improvements. If you’re concerned about messing things up, why come into work at all?

They had an interface that, quite simply, worked. And they’ve replaced it with one that… doesn’t.

As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone knows how to use iTunes. There are certainly differences in taste (you use the word “classy” above), but that’s outside of whether something works correctly or not.

For better or worse, consumers like things to feel new. If Microsoft continually updated their media player UI and Apple did not, I think iTunes would start to feel stale to many people.

workarounds, undocumented hacks and so forth, really worth the effort for our customers

As far as I can tell, nothing Daniel described involves hacks. You’ve always been allowed to draw your own controls.

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By: David http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22453 David Sun, 05 Nov 2006 01:16:23 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22453 Very useful blog. BUT, I agree with patrick when he says that I prefer the original window. It is simple, yet still usable and classy. (For instance, your initial buttons are FAR more useful and clean and attractive than your final buttons, IMO.) As someone who has to make this sort of decision all day long, everrrrry day (sigh), I know this stuff is hard. I have an idea which I call the "iTunes UI Sucks Theory". It goes something like this: As developers, we get bored with our own work. We create an interface for our product, polish it a little, stand back and think "cool", or at least OK. Fast foward 3 months at 10 hours a day of looking at that same interface and, oh no, the interface now looks staid or even ugly. So, we suddenly decide the interface needs... improving. When, in reality, it probably doesn't! The debacle that is the iTunes UI is exhibit A in this theory. They had an interface that, quite simply, worked. And they've replaced it with one that... doesn't. Game developers have this problem too, which is why game developers should probably create their UI at the end of their projects. (Witness the Quake3Arena betas: UI boredom mixing with too much money is a potent, toxic brew.) Above all, I think we have to ask ourselves is a month of work, with all the headaches involved in workarounds, undocumented hacks and so forth, really worth the effort for our customers? The trick here is that every improvement can always be justified, by a developer. It looks better! People will use/buy it more! But really, as I've found to my cost too many times, a lot of interface work, especially technical, under-the-hood work, isn't justified. But again, very good blog. Very useful blog.

BUT, I agree with patrick when he says that I prefer the original window. It is simple, yet still usable and classy.

(For instance, your initial buttons are FAR more useful and clean and attractive than your final buttons, IMO.)

As someone who has to make this sort of decision all day long, everrrrry day (sigh), I know this stuff is hard.

I have an idea which I call the “iTunes UI Sucks Theory”. It goes something like this:

As developers, we get bored with our own work. We create an interface for our product, polish it a little, stand back and think “cool”, or at least OK. Fast foward 3 months at 10 hours a day of looking at that same interface and, oh no, the interface now looks staid or even ugly. So, we suddenly decide the interface needs… improving.

When, in reality, it probably doesn’t!

The debacle that is the iTunes UI is exhibit A in this theory. They had an interface that, quite simply, worked. And they’ve replaced it with one that… doesn’t. Game developers have this problem too, which is why game developers should probably create their UI at the end of their projects. (Witness the Quake3Arena betas: UI boredom mixing with too much money is a potent, toxic brew.)

Above all, I think we have to ask ourselves is a month of work, with all the headaches involved in workarounds, undocumented hacks and so forth, really worth the effort for our customers?

The trick here is that every improvement can always be justified, by a developer. It looks better! People will use/buy it more! But really, as I’ve found to my cost too many times, a lot of interface work, especially technical, under-the-hood work, isn’t justified.

But again, very good blog.

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By: Kevin Hoctor http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22424 Kevin Hoctor Sat, 04 Nov 2006 21:07:55 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22424 Daniel, thanks for the detailing the process you went through! I did something similar with my Debt Quencher product, but it was between my beta release and the 1.0 outing. At one point I was just annoyed because the margins looked so 10 milliseconds ago. I also enjoyed your Photoshop process. I am certainly not well-versed in that tool, but I'm finding that I can do just a little bit better each time I go back and dress up some of my graphics. I almost used the PolishedWindow as well, but I played with it just a couple days before my release and I couldn't justify the last minute change. We always need to leave something for the next release, right? Nice work overall on your product! Daniel, thanks for the detailing the process you went through! I did something similar with my Debt Quencher product, but it was between my beta release and the 1.0 outing. At one point I was just annoyed because the margins looked so 10 milliseconds ago.

I also enjoyed your Photoshop process. I am certainly not well-versed in that tool, but I’m finding that I can do just a little bit better each time I go back and dress up some of my graphics. I almost used the PolishedWindow as well, but I played with it just a couple days before my release and I couldn’t justify the last minute change. We always need to leave something for the next release, right?

Nice work overall on your product!

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By: PGM http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig/comment-page-1#comment-22246 PGM Sat, 04 Nov 2006 04:47:21 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/221/flex-your-hig#comment-22246 I had a similar "who needs the margins" moment with my own app, resulting in a much more spaceous main window. The trigger for me was actually the move from Panther to Tiger when I wanted to try out the unified look on my app and then noticed how useless those margins looked. I had a similar “who needs the margins” moment with my own app, resulting in a much more spaceous main window. The trigger for me was actually the move from Panther to Tiger when I wanted to try out the unified look on my app and then noticed how useless those margins looked.

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