Comments on: OMG BBEdit HTML Code Folding

By: Leland Scott

Leland Scott — Thu, 10 May 2007 14:19:34 +0000

OMG, wait until you try the code folding in Xcode 3.0! It will rock you right back to Xcode, I’m sure. I used BBEdit for many years and got really sick of its horrible interface and irrational menu organization. I’ve been testing TextMate for months, keep going back to it and trying hard to like it, but it’s just silly in many respects that trip me up. Just as a couple of examples: You can’t rename files in the project list in the standard Cocoa way, instead must use a context menu.You have to go to the Finder if you want to reorganize the project file/folder structure.TextMate has virtually no contextual menu functionality, which is tough for someone who relies on that a lot.The project window has no customizable toolbar, so you can’t easily locate frequently used functions there. TextMate’s tabbed interface becomes unusuable after you open more than will fit in the window, because it lacks good interface feedback on which file you’re working on and its statusTextMate’s code folding for HTML and PHP sucks, actually. For HTML, TextMate won’t recognize code pairs unless they’re indented at the same level. For PHP, it will show the code folding symbols, but won’t actually fold the code unless you fix the indentation.
There’s also a LOT to like about TextMate, and one of these days I’ll write up all of the pros and cons I’ve discovered while using it.

On the other hand, I’m brand new to Xcode 3.0, and I’m blown away by this new feature Apple’s calling the code-folding “ribbon.” It’s very hard to describe in words, but imagine that you could see the code blocks as you mouse over the ribbon… they would be highlighted sort of like a “lightbox” effect, with a transparent bounding box displayed as well. The ribbon itself is colored to indicate how deeply nested the given code block is. I’ve tested this in HTML, and it’s quite intelligent… you can screw up the structure of the code completely, and the code ribbon will correctly match the beginning/ending code pairs.

When you’re working with a complex HTML page structure, this will come in very handy, I imagine. The main problem I’m having in thinking about Xcode for HTML is its lack of a live preview, which TextMate and Smultron both do well. I can open a page as HTML or via the Finder in Safari, but it’s still not as good, since I can’t easily see the code and the preview at the same time.

Anyway… I found this site as I was investigating whether anyone else has used Xcode for web development work. I tried the latest BBEdit again and was very disappointed to see it’s still the same clunky old thang. It’s definitely got power, but it’s like a 1950′s era high school that’s been added on so many times by so many developers it’s impossible to find your way around. Even when you do, you really wish they’d just tear it down and build a new one from scratch. :-)

By: jon deal

jon deal — Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:40:22 +0000

TextMate also does code folding. I recently gave my beloved BBEdit the boot in favor of TextMate. I loved BBEdit, but TextMate seems to work better for me personally, once you get used to it. Lots of memory muscle and once you get all the keyboard shortcuts drilled into your brain, it's a delight to use.

By: Julian Grey

Julian Grey — Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:16:53 +0000

I love bbedit, since it came out until this very day, fits in with my workflow and my work habits perfectly.

As an external editor for any workflow, it rocks. “File Groups” is also a wonderful addition.

By: Ryan Ballantyne

Ryan Ballantyne — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:42:55 +0000

Oh, and the SVN plugin beats Xcode’s crappy Subversion support hands down. :P

By: Ryan Ballantyne

Ryan Ballantyne — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:41:04 +0000

HTML validating is your friend, man. Install a validator plugin to Firefox, and when you view source on a page it will show you all of the errors and where to find them — including missing closing tags.

I used to use Xcode for web dev too, for the same reasons you do (despite the fact that I’m not very good at Xcode, I liked the project management). However, lately I’ve been using the Eclipse PHP IDE for web development, but that’s mostly because I do all my stuff in PHP. Despite the general clunkyness of Eclipse, the PHP-specific features make it worth my while. And, it has a great HTML editor, with code folding. :)

By: charles

charles — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:11:30 +0000

It is interesting that one of the reason I ended up switching to Textmate over BBEdit ~2 years ago was the fact that it felt so much more like Xcode in several ways, and that I liked this (over time, I also got hooked on other aspects of Textmate). You can organize text files the very same way you do it in Xcode, with a very straightforward “Project” type, and have the same easy search over a whole project as what you get in Xcode. At the time, it also already had code folding, which I have never really used, and is not anymore a selling point. For html editing, Textmate is also probably better than Xcode (the comparison with BBEdit is probably much more subject to debate and is very dependent on your taste). So, in a way, maybe what you had been looking for, for a long time, was TextMate…
(Please, no flame wars, this is not my point!)