Comments on: Better To Ask Forgiveness http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness Mac & Technology Writings by Daniel Jalkut Thu, 16 May 2013 21:58:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: britt http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146830 britt Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:15:18 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146830 Uhh… this doesn’t keep competitors from learning what a good API looks like.

http://www.gnustep.org/resources/OpenStepSpec/OpenStepSpec.html

or just grab any Mac with the dev tools on it, and flip through the documentation on the drive. Then, just extrapolate from a window/mouse driven UI to a full-screen touch UI.

Even rocket science is easy when you have the Esets assembly manual…

… and I’m 100% positive that there’s NO reason why they can’t make a statement about the reasons for having the NDA in the first place. It doesn’t help them legally to keep that a secret. It doesn’t help them technologically. It doesn’t help them financially. If anything, it’s actually harmful to them. Even Nintendo will tell you *why* they have an NDA. Sheesh!

]]> By: Luis de la Rosa http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146796 Luis de la Rosa Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:30:02 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146796 Jonathan: I think even the legal world would be wary of infinite loops. :)

Natalie: Backpacking is under NDA? I never knew!

Daniel: Thanks for the link. Not to promote the “competition”, but WordPress has also released the source for their iPhone app for a little while. I think though that you’re right – the spirit of the NDA should be honored (keep mobile device competitors from learning what a good API should be like) while still allowing sympathetic developers to communicate with each other to spread good practices and become better, especially if they’ve all been vetted through the Registered iPhone Developer program. That should result in better applications to be developed which is better for the platform and because of the App Store, should result in more revenue for Apple.

]]> By: Natalie http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146785 Natalie Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:44:19 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146785 As soon as I read the title to your post “Better to ask Forgiveness”, I completely related.

My husband and I leave on September 30th to backpack to various countries around the world for a year or so. As we have been planning for our adventure we have been updating a blog. http://www.nomadbackpackers.com

So, we leave in 8 days! I don’t think our family and friends have realized yet that we really plan on being gone for a year, two years…who knows?

It’s our new lifestyle (backpacking) and at this point we have not asked permission (we are grown adults right?) we may have to ask forgiveness.

Thanks,
Natalie

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146782 Jonathan Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:22:50 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146782 It might be fun to create a subcontractor ring. Sign up on a web site and pay a dollar. That dollar gets forwarded on to the last guy who paid a dollar and now you’re his subcontractor, who is that guy’s subcontractor, who is somebody else’s subcontractor. Giant linked-list of subcontractors…

]]> By: Danny http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146780 Danny Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:43:27 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146780 I would not be surprised if the NDA is permanent. We’ve gotten used to open discussion of the Mac APIs over the last decade but it has not always been so – remember when Mac development required purchase of ‘Inside Mac’ or even further back, when one had to buy an Apple Lisa and the Macintosh development kit?

Developers on the DS, PSP, Playstation and XBox are also under a permanent NDA which is traditional for ‘closed’ platforms. The tools required for these systems cost thousands and come with a list of legal requirements. Apple could have gone very much the same way, charging for the XCode toolchain likewise.

I feel that two things have annoyed iPhone devs more than anything else:
1) Apple’s inconsistent handling of the App Store – allowing junk apps to multiply while rejecting jems like PodCaster for violating ‘rules’ that were never stated, nor agreed too by either party. The system is flawed. Who is going to spend the effort developing apps that may well be rejected upon submission for breaking some secret rule?

2) Apple refusing to discuss the NDA status. They could have stated the NDA would be permanent at launch but they said nothing leaving Mac devs to assume it would be lifted just like every other NDA.

Apple has handled this whole thing badly from the start. Remember the pseudo JavaScript ‘API’ that they released at first? The MobileMe fiasco? I don’t know what’s happened within Apple over the last year but something has gone very wrong.

]]> By: macpug http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146776 macpug Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:42:23 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146776 @anthony EXACTLY! I can see a whole core group of folks like @danielpunkass, @chockenberry, @taptaptap -since John doesn’t tweet :), @sophiestication, @gruber, @wilshipley, @brentsimmons, and quite a few others, forming a little corporation so they could discuss things amongst themselves without being in violaltion of the ‘f’ing NDA’ as it has come to be known.

Independent developers learn so much from each other, and this should be no exception. Who knows the reason(s) Apple is not lifting this thing, but it’s just gone far past ridiculous! Excellent post Daniel, and kudos to Craig for having the cajones to post his comments and code as well.

]]> By: Anthony http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146774 Anthony Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:18:02 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146774 “The NDA has always allowed you to discuss code and insights you’ve gleaned from NDA material with co-workers at the same institution as yourself”

Someone needs to create an LLC and then “hire” all the iPhone developers.

]]> By: Karl Adam http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146773 Karl Adam Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:58:24 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146773 I still don’t see why anyone would be all up in arms about the academic program. The NDA has always allowed you to discuss code and insights you’ve gleaned from NDA material with co-workers at the same institution as yourself whether it be a large company or college/university. Would we be regarding this as being slighted if these schools already had iPhone apps developed by professors there that signed up for the SDK, NDA and all? Even the provisioning model is the same as we have now except rather than ad-hoc, it’s more for a class to distribute applications amongst each other.

]]> By: Colin Barrett http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/581/better-to-ask-forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-146772 Colin Barrett Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:40:38 +0000 http://www.red-sweater.com/blog/?p=581#comment-146772 A well written argument, Daniel. However…

There’s definitely a part of me that wants to avoid the coming iPhone trainwreck entirely a la Frasier Spiers, that is to say just quitting developing iPhone applications.

On the other hand, I’m not sure that accomplishes a whole lot. This is a classic dilemma: can you do more to help inside or out the system? I think for now I’m going to hang out in UIKit limbo and see how things to play out.

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